Exploring Self
  The shift is not a thing. It is the action of increasing your self-awareness.

Stevelord posts:

Baruch and Dawn are scratching their head as to what I saw that made me uncomfortable. Well when it escalates to sides telling the other side to fuck themelf , that would give one example of something that makes me uncomfortable, as was done here.

Steve

Baruch posts:

Stevelord wrote:

Baruch and Dawn are scratching their head as to what I saw that made me uncomfortable. Well when it escalates to sides telling the other side to fuck themelf , that would give one example of something that makes me uncomfortable, as was done here. Steve

I am most certainly not scratching my head ;D, though I can understand that you can create your perception of this You perceive this in your way, I have stated mine several times in plain English. Or maybe, I need to write longer emails to explain in greater detail for certain people but, that simply is not me and I'm not one for justifying my actions

I'm having FUN and to me that is all that I am interested in

Awan posts:

Stevelord wrote:

Baruch and Dawn brace at the thought of them apologizing and that was just my suggestion of a device, not a suggestion of a heartfelt feeling necessarily, to signal a waving of the white flag of truce, not of surrender. Baruch and Dawn are scratching their head as to what I saw that made me uncomfortable. Well when it escalates to sides telling the other side to fuck themelf , that would give one example of something that makes me uncomfortable, as was done here. Steve

Wow if I was not so present with myself I would imaging that you knew me better than I do!! Thank goodness I am not that lost.

1 I am not bracing myself at the thought of aplogizing because I dont see what I have to apologize for.

2 I am not scratching my head as to what made you so uncomforable…duh!

Go ahead and configure me this way in your reality….I really dont give a #$%&

Myranda posts:

Markus wrote:

Hi! I also don't think that aplogies per se are necessary, not in the sense to admit that something went wrong or was done wrong. What's been done has been done and I trust that it will turn out well (although I must say, that I'm having a bit of a challenge with that trust). But I think Steve was aiming at something else. And this is making a step in extending a hand and bridging the gap. Markus

Of course I do not know exactly what Steve meant and do not want to assume, but my feeling about this was similar as to yours. The word apologizing was used and this can be misunderstood, but I felt what was meant is "acknowledging the own feelings and the feelings of the others".

Stevelord posts:

One time I was in a roughneck bar with a friend and was stoned and aslked this giant guy who was wearing a lumberjack shirt if he went to Oregon State Universitiy. . Well I didnt mean it as insulting , but rather just was curious because I had the impression , being stoned , that he must be from a school like that, thats all they wear up there.

Well no sooner did I have the words out of my mouth that he charged me with malice aforethought. Well my friend jumped in the way to block his path and they argued back and forth and then his friends joined the debate and so to defuse the situation, I told the debaters in sort of a mock British accent that this whole thing was entirely my fault, which I didnt think it was as I thought this thin skinned dude totally overreacted. THis would be an example of apologizing, tongue in cheek, just to keep the peace.

Steve

Markus posts:

Steve,

You must really be master creator. If I tried that, I'd loose two set of teeth … one when asking the guy about the university and the second when making an apology that way.




Markus

ecrosset posts:

Steve

I appreciate your channeling Mother Teresa and the energy in which it is offered, but at this point for myself anything of that ilk - offered to mend a rift would be disingenuous at best.

I really don't think apologies are required - but also if anyone does go that route - I think that is okay too. Hell - that was probably one of the more genuine exchanges that has gone on.

-- Eric

Pinkrose posts:

…

Markus posts:

Hi All!

I just wanted to say, that that awkward feeling of walking on eggs is dissipating. Dunno if it's just me or the energy of the group/thread in general, but I just wanted to offer that impression to give opportunity to compare notes.


Markus

Pinkrose posts:

[…

Markus posts:

Pinkrose wrote:

Markus wrote: Hi All! … walking on eggs is dissipating. Markus Daal and I just shared in some scrambled eggs.

Ahh, that's where the eggs ended up … so they've been put to good use I think


Markus

KevinGrey posts:

One thing I would like to say on the subject of apology.

Before I do, I wish to offer the caveat that I am not suggesting anyone “apologize” for anything. I’ve already said what I had to say regarding this experiment and the exchange afterwards and in this, I don’t see that anyone did anything “wrong”. They did much “wrong” and much “right” in regards to my own guidelines and how I would choose to express, but I’ve seen what that was and the information I allowed myself in this.

For a while, after encountering Elias’ comments on “apology” and how it is a discounting, I wondered what I would do when presented with someone who wants one.

It made me quite uncomfortable, wondering how I could express myself without discounting.

I went the route of “apologizing” tongue in cheek” for a while myself. But this didn’t sit right with me either, I felt I was being “dishonest”, both with myself and the other person involved. I was blocking my own expression in this.

Then I remembered Acceptance 102. The statement by Elias of expressing in the context of other’s belief systems, once the “threat” of your own being dismembered in the meantime, subsided. In this, I realized that I was “justifying” to myself my need not to offer an apology. I was discounting what I felt. Which was making me angry and perpetuating conflicts.

So, I decided not to worry about it for a while. I decided to simply watch when I felt the need to apologize, or when I sensed another’s expectation of apology and reacted according to expectations of the situation as I felt them.

I soon realized that expectations, like preferences, are simply beliefs. Whether one operates according to expectations, or preferences, in a given situation, is quite informative, to me, as recognition of choice.

At times, they are one in the same, in absence of absolutes. At other times, when they seem to oppose, acting in accordance with “expectations”, is the effortless route. If someone seems to be demanding an apology and I am opposing this because I feel it is my preference not to apologize, this in itself is informative. Since, I create my reality, why am I demanding an apology of myself? Perhaps because I was so focused on the other, that I was ignoring me?

In any event, as Elias often says, one does not have to be in agreement, to cooperate. And again, this does not mean one always has to offer an apology. Yet, if I don’t want to be in conflict anymore, this may just be the “effortless” way, to move on and not dwell on the situation any longer. Besides, the other person’s beliefs and feelings are valid. Am I being intrusive then if I say “Fuck you, what your beliefs are don’t matter,”? Especially when I know differently? Is that not devaluing the other? Do I not devalue myself in this as well?

They don’t need justification to expect an apology from me, anymore than I need to justify myself in giving it, or not giving it. If I refuse, perhaps it is because I feel they are “unjustified” in wanting one. Does that not simply reverse the discounting? If their expression is “invalid”, what about my own?

Acceptance 101 comes in one moment. Acceptance 102, the next.

If I truly accept my expression in a moment, I can validate myself quite simply in interactions with others and seeing that their expression truly isn’t threatening me. I don’t have to “personalize”. What happens in my experience and view of reality if I tell this person “I’m sorry,”? Nothing changes, for me, except perhaps an end to conflict. Which is what I want. (If that is indeed, what I want.)

Going around trying to tell myself that everyone can fuck off and no one needs an apology from me, goes very much to what I posted the other day in regards to Elias saying that it isn’t about offering oneself the choice to express in any manner, in the guise of freedom, for that allows one also to be intrusive. Which isn’t acceptable; to me. The very thing I want most is awareness; knowledge and understanding of myself and my choices. If I choose in a moment, to be intrusive, I do deny myself this and I weep.

There are no absolutes. Saying “I’m sorry” can have much different effect depending on whether I am offering it as an automatic reaction and taking on the other’s perception of myself, personalizing and responding to. Offering this, in recognition that I am expressing within the other’s guidelines and offering them validation in the importance and meaning of these guidelines, increases my awareness of my own. Or, I can tell them their beliefs don’t matter and that I can express any way I damn well choose and take whatever comes. Or I can offer “I’m sorry,” in the energy of “Fuck you” and in some ways, I may as well have just said “Fuck you” and not blocked my own expression.

Often times, I don’t want to apologize, because I feel it “diminishes” me in some way. And this is true, if that is where my energy is. But, all I have to do is remember that my expression is valid and the “other’s” expression is valid and just in this alone, “I’m sorry,” turns from discounting, to awareness.

As Elias has often stated, much of this “Shift” deals with matters of “redefining” to ourselves what we are saying, more than changing what is being said. We all have our own language to ourselves and discovery of this, to me, is key.

So when I say: I’m sorry. I am not saying what I did was wrong. I am not simply saying it to meet your expectations so you’ll shut up. I’m saying I want my own awareness and one of the ways I do this and validate it to myself is by validating yours. It is an offering of compassion to myself, as much as to you and the point that in our conflict with each other, and ourselves, we are losing some awareness here that would help us to understand each other and ourselves and I wish to move beyond this.

That, to me, is cooperation.

Peace.

Stevelord posts:

Hi ERic,

Oh dont worry;, I know I was being disengenuous with any apologies, again its just a device. You did it yourself many many times on NWV. Of course you are much better at it than I am, in fact you are the master at the smooth over , you do it very subtly, without the person necessarily realizing he is being smoothed. Markus good too. You two are what they call naturals. Me and Bean just try to follow in your alls footsteps. I think underneath our mellow veneer , me and Bean are really more volatile. Lol.

Steve

ecrosset posts:

Stevelord wrote:

Hi ERic, Oh dont worry;, I know I was being disengenuous with any apologies, again its just a device. You did it yourself many many times on NWV. Of course you are much better at it than I am, in fact you are the master at the smooth over , you do it very subtly, without the person necessarily realizing he is being smoothed. Markus good too. You two are what they call naturals. Me and Bean just try to follow in your alls footsteps. I think underneath our mellow veneer , me and Bean are really more volatile. Lol. Steve

I didn't think you were at all - saw it as a genuine expression of appreciation for all involved. I've seen you work the "magic" on more than a few occasions And Marisa is no slouch either - she's just not as much of a suck-up as I am

Besides at NWV - all you had to do was sneak up behind somebody and whisper the word "belief" and all hell would break loose. - So it was a survival technique.

-- Eric

Bean posts:

Hi Steve,

I don't think Eric was saying that he sees you as disingenuous – just that for him to apologize to certain players would feel disingenuous to him at this time.

LOL, you are right, Steve I am definitely the more volatile of the two of us (me and Eric). But I wasn't attempting to smooth things over, just to acknowledge and appreciate your efforts. It really lifted my spirits and made me smile. You aren't responsible for how energy is received and configured, but that doesn't mean that you aren't a natural.

Marisa